31 replies to this topic

[pfozzy]

Originally posted on Money Supermarket forums which is why it's in this format...

Hi, Can Anyone help me with some advice please.

For a few years now I have been saving a small amount each month with Zopa, which then gets lent out to individuals and they pay me back plus interest.

Well recently I had a couple of these individuals fail to pay, and so the debts were written off somehow (Don't ask me how that works, I don't know) And as a result I not only lost my future repayments but lost whatever was left of what they owed me too.

This meant that the interest I had earned was being seriously eroded by the bad debt. And as a result the investment was not performing well.

I decided to withdraw my investment as soon as I could. So I switched off the autolend facility, and took out the "sell my loans to someone else" option so I could withdraw my money. They tell you the money will be ready to be withdrawn in the next few days.

When I next checked, the money had been returned to my account, and then re-lent to other borrowers!

I rang Zopa, who seemed very sympathetic over the phone and asked me to forward some e-mails while they sorted it out, and worked out what had gone wrong.

This was over a month ago, and since then I have had no contact at all, I have e-mailed them several times, they have not replied, I have tried ringing and can never get an answer.

This has gone beyond a joke now. I want my money back and I want compensation for all the messing about I have had to do.

Who should I complain to?

Edited by pfozzy, 22 June 2012 - 22:51.

[marshall2k]

Hi pfozzy,

Sounds like things have gone wrong here as using rapid return should switch off autolend so funds sit in the holding account. I think a moderator should flag this for Zopa's attention on Monday (and move this to thread to the lending forum).

I'm surprised about the few days delay between rapid return and ability to withdraw. The process should be instant.

I hope you get a good answer soon.

Edited by marshall2k, 23 June 2012 - 01:03.

[Deddington]

pfozzy, on 22 June 2012 - 22:50, said:

Originally posted on Money Supermarket forums which is why it's in this format...

Hi, Can Anyone help me with some advice please.

For a few years now I have been saving a small amount each month with Zopa, which then gets lent out to individuals and they pay me back plus interest.

Well recently I had a couple of these individuals fail to pay, and so the debts were written off somehow (Don't ask me how that works, I don't know) And as a result I not only lost my future repayments but lost whatever was left of what they owed me too.

This meant that the interest I had earned was being seriously eroded by the bad debt. And as a result the investment was not performing well.

I decided to withdraw my investment as soon as I could. So I switched off the autolend facility, and took out the "sell my loans to someone else" option so I could withdraw my money. They tell you the money will be ready to be withdrawn in the next few days.

When I next checked, the money had been returned to my account, and then re-lent to other borrowers!

I rang Zopa, who seemed very sympathetic over the phone and asked me to forward some e-mails while they sorted it out, and worked out what had gone wrong.

This was over a month ago, and since then I have had no contact at all, I have e-mailed them several times, they have not replied, I have tried ringing and can never get an answer.

This has gone beyond a joke now. I want my money back and I want compensation for all the messing about I have had to do.

Who should I complain to?

I have flagged this to Zopa.

A few comments.

Have you checked the spam folder of your email?

It would be most unusual for Zopa to have ignored your questions.

As marshall says rapid returns is instant for the qualifying loans and the money would have gone straight into your holding account from where you can withdraw it, which could then take a few days to get get to your bank account.

Did you check your holding account at the time that the money was there?

Did you have any unfunded or part funded lending offers still live? If you had not cancelled all the lending offers and any of them was unfunded the money could have gone straight to them and yes lent out so as above are you sure it went into your holding account?

Who do you complain to? Zopa no other regulator but if it was their fault they have never yet failed to stand up for their mistakes.

[elljay]

pfozzy, on 22 June 2012 - 22:50, said:

Well recently I had a couple of these individuals fail to pay, and so the debts were written off somehow (Don't ask me how that works, I don't know)

Hi pfozzy and welcome.  I'm sure Zopa will come back to you about your specific case, but the quote above makes it sound like you didn't do a lot of research into how Zopa works before investing - bad debt is expected when investing in P2P.  Maybe a bit late for you now as you appear to be taking your money out, but other would be investors reading this thread should read through the information on the main Zopa site before investing their hard earned cash to understand how P2P works.

[pfozzy]

elljay, on 23 June 2012 - 06:52, said:

Hi pfozzy and welcome.  I'm sure Zopa will come back to you about your specific case, but the quote above makes it sound like you didn't do a lot of research into how Zopa works before investing - bad debt is expected when investing in P2P.  Maybe a bit late for you now as you appear to be taking your money out, but other would be investors reading this thread should read through the information on the main Zopa site before investing their hard earned cash to understand how P2P works.

I admit to being no expert on investments and was just dipping a toe in to try it out. But the bad debt thing doesn't sit easy with me, and when you see some of your debt written off because someone has failed to pay what they owe (Seemingly with no consequence to themselves) then its starts to play on your mind and so I decided that this form of investment was not for me.

When I clicked on the "sell your loans to others" button I was told it would take a little while to sort out. I didn't then go back into my account for a few days, but got the weekly email a few days later and discovered that all the money I was about withdraw had been loaned out again at lengthy loans.

This is when I phoned and spoke to someone named Beth. I e-mailed her the weekly update and she told me that the IT team would have to work out what had gone wrong before it could be sorted out. Like I say, this is over a month ago.

Further e-mails and phone calls have gone unanswered ever since. I am not happy, I should have been able to withdraw my money a month ago!

[figures18]

Pfozzy, I've sold a lot of my loan book via RR and the system tells you that your loans will be put up for sale and you'll be notified what has and hasn't been sold when the transaction has completed. You'll have received an e mail telling you that the process had been completed and directing you to your loan book to review the updated details. That would have arrived pretty quickly after you set the sale in motion.  As for why your money was re-lent you either didn't turn off auto lend or there was a system error at Zopa's end which as you say Beth promised to look into for you.  If you intended to withdraw completely from Zopa surely you'd emptied all of your offers by closing them? Why was there still one or more active offers running.

There's no excuse for the fact that Zopa haven't replied to your subsequent e mails/phone calls. They are on the end of the phone 5 days a week on 0207 580 6060 but don't have an answerphone and the call is ended if no-one picks up ie they're busy.  This is a constant source of annoyance for me and many lenders and borrowers according to mentions here on the forum, Twitter and Facebook.  

I'm sure that now you've brought this matter to the attention of Zopa via the forum you'll receive an explanation next week.

From everything you've said all of the problems you've encountered are due to your lack of understanding of a system you'd been using for a matter of years.  There's no reason that you can't re-sell the loans that you inadvertently bought although you'll incur a further 1% selling cost.  If you want your money out then put your loans up for sale now and those that fit the criteria will be sold if there are buyers offering at the relevant rates.  When you get the e mail go to your account and withdraw the funds.  Turn Auto lend off now if you haven't already and close all active offers.

If there was a system error the first time you sold your loans as PoohBah says Zopa will rectify that so you're not out of pocket in any way.

Edited by figures18, 23 June 2012 - 08:40.

[mfaxford]

pfozzy, on 22 June 2012 - 22:50, said:

For a few years now I have been saving a small amount each month with Zopa, which then gets lent out to individuals and they pay me back plus interest.

Well recently I had a couple of these individuals fail to pay, and so the debts were written off somehow (Don't ask me how that works, I don't know) And as a result I not only lost my future repayments but lost whatever was left of what they owed me too.

This meant that the interest I had earned was being seriously eroded by the bad debt. And as a result the investment was not performing well.

pfozzy, on 23 June 2012 - 07:56, said:

I admit to being no expert on investments and was just dipping a toe in to try it out. But the bad debt thing doesn't sit easy with me, and when you see some of your debt written off because someone has failed to pay what they owe (Seemingly with no consequence to themselves) then its starts to play on your mind and so I decided that this form of investment was not for me.

As others have said this is normal and happens to everyone from time to time (I've had a several late payments, a couple of people who are making reduced payments and I've just had my first defaulter). There's a lot of information in the FAQs, on the main zopa site, and in these forums about how it all works and the things to take into account. As with any investment it's important to understand how it works, how long you're tying your money up for and any factors you need to take into account. My take on using Zopa is that there are a number of similarities to Stocks and Shares, i.e. that it needs to be a longer term investment and that you might take the odd short term hit but in the longer term it has good returns (but with some risk) - This is a very simplified view and I'm sure there a some big differences as well.

From the reading I did when I started and my experience since I've found that the odd failed payment happens from time to time. There is usually a replacement payment fairly quickly afterwards and these are nothing to worry about. I assume it's usually things along the lines of changing bank accounts or not having enough in the account when the payment is taken.

If a borrower fails to make several payments then more work is done to contact them and work with them. If this fails the loan becomes defaulted at which point the loan is effectively sold to another company who will go about trying to reclaim the money via legal means. This could end up with the borrower having a County Court Judgement against them or being declared bankrupt, so there is a consequence to them as well. From a recent post in the forums it sounds like even for a defaulted loan you might still get some money back but it can take a few years.

[pfozzy]

figures18, on 23 June 2012 - 08:24, said:

Pfozzy, I've sold a lot of my loan book via RR and the system tells you that your loans will be put up for sale and you'll be notified what has and hasn't been sold when the transaction has completed. You'll have received an e mail telling you that the process had been completed and directing you to your loan book to review the updated details. That would have arrived pretty quickly after you set the sale in motion.  As for why your money was re-lent you either didn't turn off auto lend or there was a system error at Zopa's end which as you say Beth promised to look into for you.  If you intended to withdraw completely from Zopa surely you'd emptied all of your offers by closing them? Why was there still one or more active offers running.

There's no excuse for the fact that Zopa haven't replied to your subsequent e mails/phone calls. They are on the end of the phone 5 days a week on 0207 580 6060 but don't have an answerphone and the call is ended if no-one picks up ie they're busy.  This is a constant source of annoyance for me and many lenders and borrowers according to mentions here on the forum, Twitter and Facebook.  

I'm sure that now you've brought this matter to the attention of Zopa via the forum you'll receive an explanation next week.

From everything you've said all of the problems you've encountered are due to your lack of understanding of a system you'd been using for a matter of years.  There's no reason that you can't re-sell the loans that you inadvertently bought although you'll incur a further 1% selling cost.  If you want your money out then put your loans up for sale now and those that fit the criteria will be sold if there are buyers offering at the relevant rates.  When you get the e mail go to your account and withdraw the funds.  Turn Auto lend off now if you haven't already and close all active offers.

If there was a system error the first time you sold your loans as PoohBah says Zopa will rectify that so you're not out of pocket in any way.

I did switch off autolend, And it was still switched off when I rang up and the lady from Zopa examined it. It is still switched off!

What exactly did I fail to understand in your opinion?

I know that I intended to withdraw my money, but couldn't because it was loaned out again against my wishes before I could!

Why should I pay another 1% to do another rapid return? And what's to say it won't happen again?

And if as you say Zopa will rectify it so I am not out of pocket, why have they failed to do so for the last month?

I understand that I can ring them, and have tried to on several occasions, none of which I have had an answer to. I work full time myself, and have not got the time to be waiting on the end of the phone for hours. Especially when I have already reported this problem and NOTHING has been done about it!

I really have better things to do than be arguing on here about this matter too! But I am at a loss as to how I am going to get this issue sorted out without doing so.

Edited by pfozzy, 23 June 2012 - 09:14.

[figures18]

mfaxford, on 23 June 2012 - 09:04, said:

From a recent post in the forums it sounds like even for a defaulted loan you might still get some money back but it can take a few years.

Approx a third of my defaulters are making small contributions to their arrears.  Other lenders will see different results to me obviously.

[figures18]

pfozzy, on 23 June 2012 - 09:07, said:

What exactly did I fail to understand in your opinion?

So why did you still have active offers when you wanted to close your Zopa account.  I've already said there's no excuse for Zopa not addressing your problem earlier. If you'd reacted to the e mail telling you that your loans had been sold immediately then you'd have seen that money had been added back into an active offer and you could have closed the offer before it got re lent and withdrawn the funds. You weren't in a rush to get the money out if you didn't revisit your account for a matter of days.

You've failed to understand that Zopa is not a savings a/c.  You've failed to understand most of how Zopa works.

pfozzy, on 23 June 2012 - 09:07, said:

I really have better things to do than be arguing on here about this matter too! But I am at a loss as to how I am going to get this issue sorted out without doing so.

Zopa will address the problem next week now you've highlighted it here as I and others have said.

Edited by figures18, 23 June 2012 - 09:17.

[pfozzy]

figures18, on 23 June 2012 - 09:15, said:

So why did you still have active offers when you wanted to close your Zopa account.  

You've failed to understand that Zopa is not a savings a/c.  You've failed to understand most of how Zopa works.

1) I DIDN'T! That's the whole point!

2) What's that got to do with it? And more to the point, what's it got to do with you?

I await an answer from Zopa now, thank you. I won't hold my breath though if recent experience is anything to go by.

Edited by pfozzy, 23 June 2012 - 09:26.

[figures18]

pfozzy, on 23 June 2012 - 09:21, said:

1) I DIDN'T! That's the whole point!

You must have had an active offer otherwise the funds couldn't have been added to it for borrowers to match.  I hope you get the answer next week that you've been waiting for.

[elljay]

[Moderator hat on]
Ok, let's all chill please.  Deddington has alerted Zopa that this issue needs looking into.  Zopa aren't back in the office until Monday, so that's the earliest anyone will get a response.  In the mean time let's keep things polite and constructive please and enjoy the summer if you've got any sun where you are...  

[giles]

Morning all, and in particular pfozzy. I'm afraid I can't comment on the specifics of this as 1) I don't know the facts and 2) it may not be appropriate on a public forum even when I do get possession of the facts.

Please rest assured that you will be compensated for any loss caused by a Zopa systems failure and in the meantime, please accept my apologies for any failure to respond to you or communicate in general - which I will also investigate.

Giles

[giles]

It took me a while to find it as it's on MoneySavingExpert not MoneySupermarket, but I have posted the same response there.

[Deddington]

Thanks Giles.

pfozzy
In case you are unaware of who Giles is he is the CEO of Zopa.

[zatoichi]

Is pfozzy for real?
- the profile has no details?
- the profile starts yesterday?

pfozzy, on 23 June 2012 - 07:56, said:

When I clicked on the "sell your loans to others" button I was told it would take a little while to sort out. I didn't then go back into my account for a few days, but got the weekly email a few days later and discovered that all the money I was about withdraw had been loaned out again at lengthy loans.

- all loaned out in a few days? - the only way that could happen is if he sold via Rapid Return - and then shortly after bought back by RR?

[Deddington]

zatoichi, on 23 June 2012 - 13:48, said:

Is pfozzy for real?
- the profile has no details?
- the profile starts yesterday?



- all loaned out in a few days? - the only way that could happen is if he sold via Rapid Return - and then shortly after bought back by RR?

In fairness to pfozzy having a Zopa lending account does not automatically create a forum account so if the forum account was created yesterday that is when the clock runs on this forum.

Rapid Returns on an open listing might be a possibility but for now why not let Giles find out what went on. Not that we may ever get to know as it will probably be up to pfozzy to tell us rather than Zopa to share their private conversations with pfozzy.

Edited by Deddington, 23 June 2012 - 14:09.

[pfozzy]

zatoichi, on 23 June 2012 - 13:48, said:

Is pfozzy for real?
- the profile has no details?
- the profile starts yesterday?

Am I for real? Why would I make this up?

I joined the forum in order to get my question answered, in fact it wasn't until I had asked the question on another forum (Yes Money Saving Expert, Not Money Supermarket, Sorry) that i even realised that there was a Zopa forum.

And yes, my rapid return money was all loaned out again within a few days.

[Duck]

giles, on 23 June 2012 - 11:12, said:

It took me a while to find it as it's on MoneySavingExpert not MoneySupermarket, but I have posted the same response there.

Having read the comments in this thread and the posts on MSE I'm struggling to tie the accusation of flaming.