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#1 Geoffj

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:19

Hi

My MLB is now quite few years old.  There is some analysis that I have been thinking about adding to the Demonstration MLB spreadsheet. I am interested to know other views?  Any ideas to develop these suggestions further or add to them?

1) Aged debtors and the estimated 10% recovery rate
The more I look at the 10% assumed recovery rate for written-off loans, the more I realise this is far too simplistic. For mature MLB this 10% figure results in an over statement that then impacts the yield calculation.  Further, for an MLB in run-off mode, the bad debt figures become an ever greater proportion of the money on loan.
I was thinking of reporting  “aged debtors” and making the statistics accessible.  The idea being that a recently written off loan would have a recovery rate of say 10%, but as it ages this would be written down to 0% after say 3 years (The figures will be tuneable)

2) Average duration of closed loans
It is clear that there is a tendency for loans to be paid down early.  My assumption is that the early pay down will be very dependent on your lending style, and so general statements about early pay down are not very useful.  I could present stats on early pay down for your MLB, so that you have applicable numbers related to your lending style.

3) Front page
Is anyone using the front page tab?  Is this something that can be removed?


These are just ideas to throw out there. What I would like to know is the interst from other lenders?

Regards
Geoffj

Edited by Geoffj, 25 February 2012 - 06:21.

Wisdom
1) Zopa lending is NOT the same as a savings account or a term deposit – if you think it is, then you are not ready for Zopa
2) Make sure that you understand Zopa returns after fees, bad debt and tax before you start to lend
3) Diversity across borrowers and an unhurried way of lending are the keys to success

Useful links - ReadTheFAQs,   LendingForum, MLB Demonstration Spreadsheet

#2 Gorgeous George

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:09

I'm not sure about 1) and 2) but I use the FrontPage all the time. I drop the data into the DropZone and go to the FrontPage to see how my lending is doing. I don't use any of the other sheets.

As discussed elsewhere, I have used the spreadsheet to estimate bad debt and I have added a small graph to my own FrontPage to show this. The lower area of the graph shows I have 29% of the bad debt (WrittenOff)that Zopa's current estimates suggest I should have expected; The 60% area of the graph represents those loans classified as Late so the total distressed is 89% of the expected bad debt. The 12% is the remainder (On time). The bad debt sheet requires no input from the spreadsheet user and I find this graph quite interesting (I know this currently adds up to 101% but that is just the rounding to zero decimal places).

Posted Image

I have hidden borrowers' names from the above screenshot.

The Green OK tells me that Build Unique and WSSelect contain sufficient Lines. The 'Y' on the right removes On Time Loans from the FP comments area.

ETA: The 'Cash (offers+holdings) (est)' is a negative number because I have an offers sheet that I got bored with. This lists my offers and calculates how much is lent out from each offer; how much is pending and how much is available to lend/withdraw.

GG

Edited by Gorgeous George, 25 February 2012 - 10:12.

Need alone?

You're not a loan.

:)

#3 blackburne

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 22:18

View PostGeoffj, on 25 February 2012 - 06:19, said:

Hi

My MLB is now quite few years old.  There is some analysis that I have been thinking about adding to the Demonstration MLB spreadsheet. I am interested to know other views?  Any ideas to develop these suggestions further or add to them?......

Good ideas!

Re 1) I wonder if there is any way to calculate a figure for each lender's actual recovery rate per w/o loan from historic data? All our experiences are likely to be different. If there is a way, then this could be applied to the other categories as well.
Re 2) Good idea, though I'm not sure how i could use the information.
Re 3) I don't use the Front Page tab.  The one I use most is ZOPA return, because that is what it is all about in the end.

It's a great tool, by the way.  Do you want an agent to help you market it to new lenders?

#4 Geoffj

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:22

View Postblackburne, on 25 February 2012 - 22:18, said:


Re 1) I wonder if there is any way to calculate a figure for each lender's actual recovery rate per w/o loan from historic data? All our experiences are likely to be different. If there is a way, then this could be applied to the other categories as well.

It's a great tool, by the way.  Do you want an agent to help you market it to new lenders?

Thanks blackburne

Getting a handle on % recovery for w/o loans is quite important to feed into the Zopa Returns tab. Thsi is very much so for anyone with an MLB that is older than 2 years.

I could try and look at % write-offs for individual MLBs broken down various ways. The problem with this type of analysis is that it takes several years for a pattern/trend to emerge, and by then the market/lending-profile has moved on. The Loan break down tab is available and it can be used to carry outthis type of anlaysis "visually"

I like the comment about new lenders and demo MLB spreadsheet- All should be incouraged to use it, or soemthing like it.

The thing I like is how the dicussions have changed on this forum. Before the demonstration MLB spreadsheet every 3rd question was "In Excel, how do I.....".

Regards
Geoffj
Wisdom
1) Zopa lending is NOT the same as a savings account or a term deposit – if you think it is, then you are not ready for Zopa
2) Make sure that you understand Zopa returns after fees, bad debt and tax before you start to lend
3) Diversity across borrowers and an unhurried way of lending are the keys to success

Useful links - ReadTheFAQs,   LendingForum, MLB Demonstration Spreadsheet

#5 Gorgeous George

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 11:29

Hi

Perhaps the LoanBreakdown graph could have an option to exclude 'On Time' loans as well as 'Closed' loans. This would enable us to see where our distressed loans are more clearly.

GG
Need alone?

You're not a loan.

:)

#6 Geoffj

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:23

View PostGorgeous George, on 26 February 2012 - 11:29, said:

Hi

Perhaps the LoanBreakdown graph could have an option to exclude 'On Time' loans as well as 'Closed' loans. This would enable us to see where our distressed loans are more clearly.

GG

Hi GG

That is a very intesting idea!  It would not take much to implement it and it could be very useful.

I will add it the list and see if I can get it into the next release.

Thanks
Geoffj
Wisdom
1) Zopa lending is NOT the same as a savings account or a term deposit – if you think it is, then you are not ready for Zopa
2) Make sure that you understand Zopa returns after fees, bad debt and tax before you start to lend
3) Diversity across borrowers and an unhurried way of lending are the keys to success

Useful links - ReadTheFAQs,   LendingForum, MLB Demonstration Spreadsheet

#7 Gorgeous George

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 19:58

I think the bad debt analysis that your spreadsheet enabled me to come up with is quite interesting.

The small graph in my post above is a kind of 'luck-o-meter' showing how my bad debt compares to Zopa's estimates. With a little more user input it could compare my bad debt experience with the overall bad debt at Zopa (actual rather than the estimates).

This was my bad debt table on 14 Jan.

Posted Image

GG
Need alone?

You're not a loan.

:)

#8 MikeS1531

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 20:06

View PostGeoffj, on 25 February 2012 - 06:19, said:

Any ideas to develop these suggestions further or add to them?

1) Aged debtors and the estimated 10% recovery rate
The more I look at the 10% assumed recovery rate for written-off loans, the more I realise this is far too simplistic. For mature MLB this 10% figure results in an over statement that then impacts the yield calculation.  Further, for an MLB in run-off mode, the bad debt figures become an ever greater proportion of the money on loan.
I was thinking of reporting  “aged debtors” and making the statistics accessible.  The idea being that a recently written off loan would have a recovery rate of say 10%, but as it ages this would be written down to 0% after say 3 years (The figures will be tuneable)

2) Average duration of closed loans
It is clear that there is a tendency for loans to be paid down early.  My assumption is that the early pay down will be very dependent on your lending style, and so general statements about early pay down are not very useful.  I could present stats on early pay down for your MLB, so that you have applicable numbers related to your lending style.

3) Front page
Is anyone using the front page tab?  Is this something that can be removed?
Starting from the bottom...

I had forgotten that the Front Page tab existed, so I'm obviously not using it.  But it does provide a nice summary, and no doubt there will be some who do use it, and would miss it if it were removed.  I expect it's a case of many users and many overlapping features means some people use some features and others use others.  So the only way to please all the people all the time is to leave all the features in.  Until, of course, the spreadsheet gets so big that its size and performance become an issue.  This used to affect me, but I've been forced to upgrade my PC so now the spreadsheet works like a dream.

Info about early payments would be very useful.  I think this is an aspect of Zopa that has a much greater effect on their achieved returns than most lenders realise, so this might bring the issue to more people's attention.  As an illustration of how much early payment is happening... In the last week I've taken a good look at how the actual payments received into my account compare to the spreadsheet's predictions, and I've been amazed by the results -- I've been getting THREE TIMES as much money into my account as predicted!  (And for anyone who doesn't know me, I'll add that I have a pretty large loan book, so these results are not being unduly influenced by one or two overpayments.)

As for the expected recovery rate on Written Off loans, the feature proposed would be helpful.  I don't expect 10% on those any more, and I've used the Variables tab to change my assumption to 1%.  

While on that subject, I'll also mention that I think the default recovery rates for Collections (50%) and Arrangement (25%) are directionally wrong.  A loan with an Arrangement indicates a borrower that acknowledges their debt and is trying to do something about it, whereas a Collections loan suggests to me that the borrower is ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away on its own.  In my case I've swapped the suggested recovery rates and am using 50% for an Arrangement and 25% for a loan in Collections.  I'd be interested to know whether others think I've got the direction right or not.

As far as possible further features to include...  One addition that I've made to my spreadsheet -- with a lot of Excel help from GG -- is to add a Bad Debt tab.  On it are shown the estimated Bad Debt expectations for each of the markets I have lent in, and that is then compared to the actual bad debt I've incurred.  This allows me to see how my actual bad debt compares to the estimates, both by market and overall.

#9 Gorgeous George

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 20:33

I was too late to edit my bad debt sheet post above so this is my current one. The green area checks that the comments list on the FrontPage accommodates all my distressed loans and feeds the luck-o-meter.

Posted Image

GG
Need alone?

You're not a loan.

:)

#10 chilterncom1

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 21:10

View PostMikeS1531, on 26 February 2012 - 20:06, said:

As an illustration of how much early payment is happening... In the last week I've taken a good look at how the actual payments received into my account compare to the spreadsheet's predictions, and I've been amazed by the results -- I've been getting THREE TIMES as much money into my account as predicted!  (And for anyone who doesn't know me, I'll add that I have a pretty large loan book, so these results are not being unduly influenced by one or two overpayments.)

Mike, you appear to be suggesting that your receipts from repayments are consistently three times the expected amount. Are you sure?? Mine certainly aren't.  There are occasional days when the expected repayments are quite low (for example for loans repayments due on 9th, 11th or 13th of the month) and early repayments could be ten times the expected amount and still be a lot less than the amount expected for the average repayment day. Are you saying it happens on 1st, 28th, 15th, snd and 5th as well?

A monthly comparison would be much more meaningful.

Edited by chilterncom1, 26 February 2012 - 21:11.


#11 figures18

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 21:59

Hi Geoffj

I don't use the Front Page but as MikeS says unless it's becoming too heavy a spreadsheet to include it then I'm happy for it to stay for those that do.

I'm becoming a little boring sadly, I'm more than happy with the spreadsheet as is but I appreciate your thoughts and ideas on adding the functions you mention.  If you release a new version of course I'll check it out but for now MI Zopa does it for me.

Because you allowed the default values to be changed by the user I have mine set to

75% Late Loans
50% Collections
75% Arrangement
and 0% for defaults

and even though they're reflected in £ in Block 5 of the spreadsheet, MLB Summary Statistics I rarely refer to them.
I should give myself a daily smiley allowance - sometimes I use too many!!

#12 chilterncom1

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 22:24

I'm happy with the spreadsheet as it is but would also be more than happy to see changes that others think worthwhile.  :)   Having said that, the spreadsheet is very large for some users even with relatively high-powered laptops, so their needs should be kept in mind - as others have said.

#13 sandras' mate

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 23:47

I use the front page to quickly see what money should be coming in during next period, although it seems to under report due to additional payment and full repayments, it helps me rate set.

Overall then use ZOPA MI, to look at the current situation, I do in section 1)have an average for the outstanding loans per section.

The investment is in my wife's name and therefore no tax, poor lady, a quick switch for no tax may be useful as I know others have the same arrangement.

I am not sure there is any constancy to the subjects of 1) and 2), but information may be useful.

I do like to see the borrowers who have repaid early and the interest received, I would like fees taken from this to quickly see how each loan has done against quoted rates etc. Being under 3 years our first borrowers will soon be repaying. This could be just over the last two months.

Sandra's mate

#14 MikeS1531

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:34

View Postfigures18, on 26 February 2012 - 21:59, said:

... but for now MI Zopa does it for me.
I meant to mention, but forgot, that the reason I don't use the Front Page is that I use MI_Zopa instead.

View Postsandras, on 26 February 2012 - 23:47, said:

... a quick switch for no tax may be useful ...
I would have thought the current option on the Variables would be quick enough.  Select all six tax rate cells and hit the Delete key -- Done!

#15 MikeS1531

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:39

View Postchilterncom1, on 26 February 2012 - 21:10, said:

Mike, you appear to be suggesting that your receipts from repayments are consistently three times the expected amount. Are you sure?? Mine certainly aren't.  There are occasional days when the expected repayments are quite low (for example for loans repayments due on 9th, 11th or 13th of the month) and early repayments could be ten times the expected amount and still be a lot less than the amount expected for the average repayment day. Are you saying it happens on 1st, 28th, 15th, snd and 5th as well?

A monthly comparison would be much more meaningful.
Apologies for two posts in succession -- I forgot to respond to the one above.

Sorry if the report of my overpayment experience gave the impression of being more than a few spot pieces of data.  It was not a thorough study, and did not include any of the popular repayment dates chilterncom1 highlighted.  Then again, it also did not include any of my seven least popular repayment days, and there were an average of about 100 repayments on the days I checked.  Monday evening's credits will be at a similar level, whereas Tuesday's will a lot more because three days are involved, including the 25th.  I'll try to remember to check on those days as well and report my findings.

The point I was trying to make, however, wasn't about the specific level of extra payments but more just to observe that overpayments aren't insignificant, and that if there was a way to use the demo spreadsheet to produce some data about this then it could be helpful.

I agree that a data covering a whole month would be more useful.  There was a time when I was trying to track that data, but I haven't done that in nearly two years.  The last data I have shows I was receiving about 40% more in payments than the spreadsheet was predicting.  I really don't know whether that would be different now, but with the press reports suggesting that people in general are trying to reduce their debt load in these uncertain times I might expect the overpayments to be larger now.  But that's just a guess.

#16 grogged

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:01

Why not have 2 MLB's?

One as an overview aimed at more novice / lite users and one aimed at experienced / number crunchers?

#17 propman

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:21

Many thanks for a magnifiscent tool.

All the additional functionality sounds really helpful. I must admit that I have never got your return calculation to work and so replaced it with an NPV calculation and back-solve for 0 NPV to get the rate. Otherwise it is fantastic.

I too agree that info on closed loans would be very helpful. Could this easily be compared as a percentage of non-late loans by market? Knowing that I expect (say) 30% of 36 month loans to repay in the second year etc. would give me a better idea of the premium required to cover bad debts. If borrowers who don't fall into arrears only average 2/3 of the full interest if they had paid on schedule would mean a 50% hike in the required premium! the other useful statistic I have calculated on occassion is bad debts as a proportion of income received.

- PM

#18 figures18

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 15:32

View Postgrogged, on 27 February 2012 - 09:01, said:

Why not have 2 MLB's?  One as an overview aimed at more novice / lite users and one aimed at experienced / number crunchers?
I think that's a good idea.  A combined lite version for novices and those with slower/older computers.
I should give myself a daily smiley allowance - sometimes I use too many!!

#19 MikeS1531

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 15:44

View Postgrogged, on 27 February 2012 - 09:01, said:

Why not have 2 MLB's?

View Postfigures18, on 27 February 2012 - 15:32, said:

I think that's a good idea.  A combined lite version for novices and those with slower/older computers.
We are talking about two demo spreadsheets rather than two MLB's, aren't we?

Presuming so, yes, it's a nice idea -- as long as it doesn't double geoffj's workload and he's happy to do the job.  Mustn't overwork the volunteers!

#20 figures18

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 15:54

View PostMikeS1531, on 27 February 2012 - 15:44, said:

We are talking about two demo spreadsheets rather than two MLB's, aren't we?
I think we are  :)
I should give myself a daily smiley allowance - sometimes I use too many!!




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